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	<title>Comments on: Stop Hunger Porn #2: Engage and Help</title>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://ishouldlogoff.com/2010/05/27/kiva-microfinance-travel/comment-page-1/#comment-4358</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That is rather interesting logic regarding the political aspect of the World Bank.  It is funny because I am quite quick to point that exact same process out when it comes to standard government aid but it never crossed my mind to expect the World Bank to function in a similar fashion.  Makes perfect sense though.  On balance, I think you&#039;re right, infrastructure improvements are good things for a growing economy and it is very hard to understand how large the negative impact of the political lobby might be.  Hopefully it is minimal.....  

Truthfully though, I think with a kiva-like project it is even harder to make that kind of answer but still, I think it is probably quite minimal.  The nice thing is that with kiva I can choose where I want to loan my money but this is still through a list of pre-approved kiva projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is rather interesting logic regarding the political aspect of the World Bank.  It is funny because I am quite quick to point that exact same process out when it comes to standard government aid but it never crossed my mind to expect the World Bank to function in a similar fashion.  Makes perfect sense though.  On balance, I think you&#8217;re right, infrastructure improvements are good things for a growing economy and it is very hard to understand how large the negative impact of the political lobby might be.  Hopefully it is minimal&#8230;..  </p>
<p>Truthfully though, I think with a kiva-like project it is even harder to make that kind of answer but still, I think it is probably quite minimal.  The nice thing is that with kiva I can choose where I want to loan my money but this is still through a list of pre-approved kiva projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Kennet</title>
		<link>http://ishouldlogoff.com/2010/05/27/kiva-microfinance-travel/comment-page-1/#comment-4355</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Kennet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am actually not all that familiar with the deeper workings of the World Bank programs in general.  The ones that I have seen probably do indeed conform to what you are talking about, but in at least one case I have to question what the underlying objective was.  What I saw was a proposal to build new telephone networks in a previously unserved region using Bank monies, and what I heard from Bank officials was that the developing nation involved should indebt its children to accomplish this because the private sector would never find the investment profitable.

In my opinion at the time (which the passing of years has vindicated), the project would have been a foolish use of scarce resources for the country involved.  Bank technocrats could not present a coherent case explaining why the private sector was failing in the project, and the government quite rightly rejected the program.  Sure enough, in the intervening period, telecoms infrastructure has arrived without government subsidy in the region in question, perhaps a bit more slowly than it would have otherwise but without another load of debt hanging over the country&#039;s children.

Observing the above, and not believing that I possessed any special prescience, I started to wonder what drove the Bank&#039;s project marketing efforts (all, of course, assuming that you think economic development and infrastructure creation are good things, which I know many people do not).  The only answer I could come up with that really fit with the facts as I knew them was that the Bank&#039;s incentives are driven by the interests of donor nations.  These rich countries are where high technology infrastructure devices are created, and Bank recipient countries represent a possible source of demand for this market.  So the process that resulted was effectively that the firms manufacturing telecoms devices lobbied their governments to provide funds - and preferably general Bank funds, not just funds donated by that government - to promote projects that would ultimately buy the firm&#039;s products, whether or not the projects were really beneficial to the recipient country.  Win-win, except that the recipient country&#039;s kids end up paying.

How bad is this really?  Hard to say. On the one hand, countries do end up with better infrastructure, and I am one of those who think that this is probably a good thing on balance if it can be put to use.  On the other, if a country is so mismanaged that its private sector cannot be relied upon to produce the necessary infrastructure, it is unclear to me that using outside financing will end up really helping over the long haul, and the debt level implied by World Bank and similar programs may actually end up raising the local cost of capital beyond a competitive level even if the government does get its act together.  I also wonder whether the benefits today of such infrastructure investments outweigh the future costs of the debt incurred; I really do not know the answers.  But I would be a lot more comfortable with programs that actually functioned from the bottom up, with local investors seeking to generate the infrastructure based on a locally sound business plan that met local needs; rather than programs that seem more oriented toward providing donor countries either with more markets for technology products or more sources of primary resources.  This clearly makes ethical sense, and I think it makes economic sense as well.  Thus, I am in synch with the Kiva objectives, but I remain concerned about implementation since I am not sure whose interests are being pushed in Kiva-approved loans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am actually not all that familiar with the deeper workings of the World Bank programs in general.  The ones that I have seen probably do indeed conform to what you are talking about, but in at least one case I have to question what the underlying objective was.  What I saw was a proposal to build new telephone networks in a previously unserved region using Bank monies, and what I heard from Bank officials was that the developing nation involved should indebt its children to accomplish this because the private sector would never find the investment profitable.</p>
<p>In my opinion at the time (which the passing of years has vindicated), the project would have been a foolish use of scarce resources for the country involved.  Bank technocrats could not present a coherent case explaining why the private sector was failing in the project, and the government quite rightly rejected the program.  Sure enough, in the intervening period, telecoms infrastructure has arrived without government subsidy in the region in question, perhaps a bit more slowly than it would have otherwise but without another load of debt hanging over the country&#8217;s children.</p>
<p>Observing the above, and not believing that I possessed any special prescience, I started to wonder what drove the Bank&#8217;s project marketing efforts (all, of course, assuming that you think economic development and infrastructure creation are good things, which I know many people do not).  The only answer I could come up with that really fit with the facts as I knew them was that the Bank&#8217;s incentives are driven by the interests of donor nations.  These rich countries are where high technology infrastructure devices are created, and Bank recipient countries represent a possible source of demand for this market.  So the process that resulted was effectively that the firms manufacturing telecoms devices lobbied their governments to provide funds &#8211; and preferably general Bank funds, not just funds donated by that government &#8211; to promote projects that would ultimately buy the firm&#8217;s products, whether or not the projects were really beneficial to the recipient country.  Win-win, except that the recipient country&#8217;s kids end up paying.</p>
<p>How bad is this really?  Hard to say. On the one hand, countries do end up with better infrastructure, and I am one of those who think that this is probably a good thing on balance if it can be put to use.  On the other, if a country is so mismanaged that its private sector cannot be relied upon to produce the necessary infrastructure, it is unclear to me that using outside financing will end up really helping over the long haul, and the debt level implied by World Bank and similar programs may actually end up raising the local cost of capital beyond a competitive level even if the government does get its act together.  I also wonder whether the benefits today of such infrastructure investments outweigh the future costs of the debt incurred; I really do not know the answers.  But I would be a lot more comfortable with programs that actually functioned from the bottom up, with local investors seeking to generate the infrastructure based on a locally sound business plan that met local needs; rather than programs that seem more oriented toward providing donor countries either with more markets for technology products or more sources of primary resources.  This clearly makes ethical sense, and I think it makes economic sense as well.  Thus, I am in synch with the Kiva objectives, but I remain concerned about implementation since I am not sure whose interests are being pushed in Kiva-approved loans.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://ishouldlogoff.com/2010/05/27/kiva-microfinance-travel/comment-page-1/#comment-4284</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was hoping to hear your input on this one. 
 
I have one question to what you said and that is your reference to the World Bank.  My understanding of WB transactions was that it functioned as a bank in that it issues loans to governments (with heavy restrictions, no doubt) in order to employ local labor in the improvement of local infrastructure.  I&#039;m obviously oversimplifying but am I missing a key ingredient or is your point that the restrictions are generally more political than economic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was hoping to hear your input on this one. </p>
<p>I have one question to what you said and that is your reference to the World Bank.  My understanding of WB transactions was that it functioned as a bank in that it issues loans to governments (with heavy restrictions, no doubt) in order to employ local labor in the improvement of local infrastructure.  I&#8217;m obviously oversimplifying but am I missing a key ingredient or is your point that the restrictions are generally more political than economic?</p>
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